SNP Episode 111 - Zsudayka Nzinga Terrell
Art + Life w/ artist Zsudayka Nzinga Terrell
Welcome, Zsudayka Nzinga Terrell to the Studio Noize fam! Zsudayka is living her best art life in DC with her artist husband, James Terrell, her artsy kids, her art practice, and recently became vice president of Black Artist of DC (BADC). She has done murals, art commissions, and much more to support herself and keep living her dream. We get into some great stories about her growth from not knowing what an artist's call was to collaborating with her husband and building her practice over the years.
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JBarber: All right. It's your boy, JBarber, the Studio Noize. I'm back, heading up to the DC area. Had to highlight my girl. Zsudayka Nzinga Terrell. Am I right?
Zsudayka: Perfect.
JBarber: Yeah, she's an artist doing her` thing. Her and her family her whole life built around art. So, that's what I, I really loved that and wanted to talk to her. You can catch her work at @Zsudayka on Instagram and you can go to Terrellartsdc.com, where you can see her and her husband's work. We'll talk about that as we go along, how are you doing girl?
Zsudayka: I'm doing fantastic. How about you?
JBarber: I'm chilling so glad to get to talk to you. You a fan of the podcast. So, you know, I always love that I give you extra points for that already
Zsudayka: I'm a stalker of the podcast.
JBarber: That's what's up. Yo. So, you, you have been doing some interesting stuff along the lines. Get to follow your story on Instagram and, you know, see all the stuff that you're doing. So, how you been like during this pandemic, like coming out of it, like how you feel
Zsudayka: The pandemic has been wonderful. I'm actually a little bit disappointed that people are about to start going back outside again. I think when it first started, cause I [inaudible01:18]contract with education as well. So, when it first started, I think I had a moment completely freaking out, like, okay, what does that look like?
JBarber: Like we all did.
Zsudayka: Yes, because at first, they said two weeks and then like two or three months later, everything started getting canceled and I was like, oh my God, what is about to happen? And then summer got to pop in and that was great for black art.
JBarber: Oh, it was yes. It was a crazy moment
Zsudayka: We have like a Renaissance happening.
JBarber: Yeah. It was a crazy moment. Right. You juxtapose it with all the, you know, George Floyd and all that stuff. But it was like this extreme interest in black stuff. Like, you know, everybody want to examine critical race theory and I collect black art all of a sudden. So, it was different, you know, but, but you rode the wave.
Zsudayka: Yeah. I was really excited because I felt like I had done a lot of work kind of establishing myself. And so I just like, when everything started really blowing up in terms of like people seeking black art and representations of people talking about black art, like my phone started ringing off the hook. My, my email blew up and all of these different opportunities really opened up. And for me, because I do you know, I'm not just the fine artist, but I do arts education and I'm curating. So, I ended up with opportunities to also showcase a lot of other black artists and put other black artists into certain positions. So, that was like really fun.
JBarber: And this was primarily in the DC area or other places?
Zsudayka: Primarily in the DC area. But even on my page, I have started to kind of dabble a little bit in some art dealing. And so being able to, like... I had such an influx of people who wanted to collect. And so what ended up happening is like, I was able to direct some of my previous collectors to some new people. So, I have this brother out of Nigeria, Easy Franklin. I was able to start sending people to his page to buy things. I was posting my husband's work and so people were starting to buy things more from him. I got a grant with the DC commission of arts. And so we had 21 DC art teachers, some who had never shown work before be able to show on a really huge platform in the area. And so, you know, it was an exciting time.
JBarber: [inaudible03:41] so in DC community, how long have you lived in DC
Zsudayka: Coming up on 10 years. So, I'm originally from Denver and I'll always want it to be in DC when I was a child, I said that I was going to go to Howard and be in a famous artist in DC and everybody was like, that's nutter butter, but okay. And I went through a whole bunch of other windows I ended up getting a journalism degree and working in journalism. I went to Hampton, I kept doing all this stuff going around DC and I moved to Atlanta for a little while. And I have a friend here who called me and was like, I've known you for like 20 years. And for all 20 years, all you ever talk about is being in DC. Come on. And so I came up here and I've been here ever since
JBarber: It wasn't about DC. Like why would you fixate on it?
Zsudayka: Okay. Don't judge me. Okay.
JBarber: You can be black anyway you want to on the show
Zsudayka: Listen, so don't at me y'all. at first, I don't really know. I've always just like, love the idea of a DC. And I think that perhaps growing up in Denver, where there isn't,... there's a lot of black people in Denver, but there's not like a concentrated black community. And so I think like younger, that idea of like chocolate city was really intriguing to me what it is to live around. Like people who look like you and go to stores that are owned by people who are like you. But then, like when I got older DC, like all the brothers in DC have these long beautiful dreadlocks. And I was like, Oh my God, I have got to go be in this sea of locks And so now I'm out here and everybody has them and it's annoying. I'm just like, Oh, you got your little crinkly waist length hair out here, like everybody. But it was like, I was like, I'm trying to go be around some of these brothers with their locks. And like, everybody's smart.
JBarber: I love it, yo whatever gets you there. Yo, that's all I thought about it. Yeah.
Zsudayka: I ended up marrying somebody. He don't have locks. Like, I don't know,
JBarber: You had to start somewhere though I guess.
Zsudayka: No. Right. But the first time I visited here, I was a freshman in college. We came up to Howard for a journalism convention and it was like a couple of weeks after September 11th. So, the energy was weird, but I was sold, like as soon as we crossed into the district, I was like, Oh, I might drop out of school.
JBarber: That's awesome. So, at what point did you start getting into the art? I know you're self-taught and doing what you do.
Zsudayka: Yeah, so forever I've always been an artist. I was the kid who, when I was in second grade, I used to color earrings for people to match their outfits every day and sell it to them for lunch money till I got in trouble. I had this teacher when I was in second grade, who was like this hippie white woman, and I'll never forget we were in class and she would play music while we were drawing. And Eric Clapton, 'tears from heaven came on. And we were all like, ah, we hate that nobody wants to hear this song. So, she stopped it. And she was like, this is a song about his child falling out of the window and dying. And like, like was super shocking. And then she made us listen to it over and over again for the next like hour and draw based on like how it felt for us to find that out.
And like, from that point, I was just like, art is magical. Like I got to figure out what this looks like. And so, you know, when I was growing up, I was always like the super smart one. So, my parents wanted me to be an attorney. They wanted me to go to like Ivy league schools and I just wanted to draw. And so I, I followed what they said for a while. I went to college, I studied journalism. I got a job with a newspaper , I did what I felt was the right thing quote on quote. And then at the end of the day, I just was continuing to draw. And so in the early, the late nineties, early two thousands, there was like this explosion in spoken word. And so, you know, I was like 18 and I was traveling around the country doing poetry and drawing pictures on the side and then putting my art on the covers of my poetry books. And
JBarber: I thought you were about to say you were selling CDs.
Zsudayka: I was doing that too.
JBarber: [inaudible08:00], that’s what's up.
Zsudayka: [inaudible08:06]my dad, just mailed me a box of all this old stuff. And inside that box is a bunch of poetry CDs.
JBarber: You got to send your boy one
Zsudayka: I was listening to myself, cracking up laughing because I was in my mad black phase at the time. So, it was like revolution, brothers, where is your spirit at? It was a lot.
JBarber: I love it, that’s what I'm talking about Yo.
Zsudayka: But like I've fed the art like being around so many different people, I'm staying at all these different strangers’ houses all over the country. It was actually hella dangerous when I really think.
JBarber: [Inaudible]to my daughter.
Zsudayka: Nah don't, don't be out there like that. I don't know what it is when you're like between 18 and 21. And you just feel invincible.
JBarber: Invincible yeah. That’s what it is yo.
Zsudayka: Right. So, and I had people like they would come stay at my house and I booked them doing all these shows. So, I was just like exposed to a lot of different people and kind of taking that in to like draw on the side. And I started teaching art like shortly after, after that. And in the city where I'm from, I decided to start a black art festival. And so Denver has one of the biggest black arts festivals in the country. Oddly enough,
JBarber: Oh yeah, what’s the name of it?
Zsudayka: At that time, it was the Denver Black Art festival. Now it's the Colorado Black Art festival. But because it was so big, it focused on like international black art and it was hella expensive. And so like, if you were just a local artist from the city, it was hard to get into.
JBarber: Right.
Zsudayka: So, I was like, well, I want to start one that's smaller. That's like more geared towards people who are local. So, I went to the Sanco for art collective, which was the black art collective at the time. And I was like, Hey, I'm trying to have this festival, like, can you guys come support? And they were like, we'll support if you join the art collective. And I was like, I'm like, not that good I do this for fun. And I'm so, you know, I applied, they looked at my work and said the same thing. Like, no, you're really not that good, but I think you'll be great later. Right come on.
JBarber: [inaudible10:18] I love it.
Zsudayka: Those ladies like took me under the wing, like, listen, this ain't the way, but, but it's going to be one day...
JBarber: Yo I love that yo. That's good
Zsudayka: If not for them who would, right.
JBarber: Yeah, exactly, somebody had to tell you
Zsudayka: Yeah, and just keep it real. And just in a way that still made me want to pursue and still like giving me nudges, like, Hey, try this. Like, Hey.
JBarber: And they took the second step within the second step is to help you. Right. Not just tell you, leave you out there, like in the wilderness, like loss, like floating around, like they gave you the helping hand, I love that.
Zsudayka: Right. Nobody was like, Hey, you should never draw again, which they could have because I was clueless. You know, I knew I wanted to paint and I've always been able to like draw something if I have a picture of it, but I wanted to paint. So, like I legit went to Hobby Lobby and bought some canvas and some oil paint, no turpentine, no oil to like mix it down like.
JBarber: You're just all wrong.
Zsudayka: Just awful
JBarber: I love it. See that's what you start at. You had the desire, right?
Zsudayka: Yes.
JBarber: You spent your money to do it. That's what’s up y’all.
Zsudayka: Yes. So, I just got to jump in.
JBarber: I love it.
Zsudayka: So, that's really like how I got started. It was like just having it opened up all these opportunities for people like, Hey, come put some art here. And like put me in rooms with people who really could give me support. And then I left Denver. I went to Atlanta and same thing like brothers, really like the elder brothers really just took me in. And you know, so this brother, James Lee Brooks, like really sat down with me and really just worked with me. He would give me these critiques. And one of the things he said, he was like, you know, you really got a good understanding of like figure and technique, but you have no concept of color. And for me at that time, I didn't even, because I didn't go to art school. So, I didn't even know that like color was a thing. Like I like red, I put red right here. I like yellow, I put yellow right here. And he was like, no boo, you need to get some color theory books. Which I think really changed my life. And so then I got to DC and I met my husband and he's an acrylic painter. And he was like, sis, you need to be using acrylic for which to do like oil is not a good look. And so I switched over, hanging out with him and have been an acrylic painter ever since.
JBarber: So, what w what do you think the piece was like the one piece that you remember that, that you've thought you figured it out, like as you, as it was going?
Zsudayka: I think that, I don't know if there was like one specific piece that I was like, okay, here we go. I think that it was like, so I was out painting live with like oil bars and I had some water soluble oil at the time, but it still takes days to dry. And so it's like when you're painting and you know, I'm trying to paint something in two hours and sell it and you can't do that.
JBarber: That's a disaster waiting to happen.
Zsudayka: It gets all muddy. And then like the person's trying to put it in their car and it’s just a wreck, it's just a bad look. And so I think that there was a couple of things, like practicality, like that just didn't work. And so for me, I always thought like acrylic would dry too fast. Like you got to work so quick, you have to make decisions so fast. And at that time, painting was like a really emotional experience for me. So, it wasn't something that I wanted to happen. I thought I was like creating, like from an organic space when it was still kind of moist and still like merging together. Cause I wasn't contemplating that, putting all those colors on top of each other when they're not set is going to pull it out.
JBarber: Right.
Zsudayka: So, I think that it was like starting to experiment with some of the things that I could do with like canvas. He gave me this big roll of like whole press paper and being able to like water the paint down, dump it on, like make a mess and then it's dry in an hour. I could paint over. It was like, Oh, Whoa, I might like this. And so I, you know, I think it grew from there. So, I sat on like YouTube and started to watch a bunch of videos about like, well, how do I actually use the acrylic paint? And I think I probably still use a lot of oil techniques. Like I'm big on underpainting still, but really like learning to experiment with it was really a big change for me.
JBarber: So, you were going, how did you develop your subject matter or did you like start to think of it in a different way as you were, as you were learning more techniques?
Zsudayka: Definitely. I've always been into figures. I knew I wanted to paint figures and paint black figures. I wasn't at first really sure like long-term what that was gonna look like. But I think because I'm self-taught, I felt that if I could paint something that was photo realistic, then I was good enough to then like, if I wanted to try to abstract the figure or try some new things with the, I could. So, I focus for a lot of years on just trying to get to photo realistic painting or like as close as possible. And so when I first got to DC, that's actually how I was paying my bills, like painting people's babies, painting people's husbands, wedding gifts, like those types of things, but it was very boring for me after a certain time. Cause it got formulaic, like, okay, you know, I know what the dimensions of the face are.
I'm just going to sketch that out and paint it. Like there was no emotion in it for me and you know, everybody's... I had this experience where I painted this sister. She commissioned me to do a self-portrait and I realized that a lot of people don't really like, know what they actually look like. And so like, I brought her this painting and I stand behind the quality of it. Like if it was bad, I'm real I'll say it was bad but it was a good painting. She was like, Oh my God, you made me so fat and dark. Is this how you see me? And I'm standing there like, cause I don't know what to say to that. Like, I don't want to be like, well you are fat and dark, like yikes you know? But she like went off and like chase me out of the house, like refuse to pay for it. It got real crazy. So, after that I was like, I don't want to be painting no commissions of folks anymore because y'all give me these pictures of your ugly baby. And then I got to paint the baby the way the baby looks, but y'all want me to like fix it and or people come in and be like.
JBarber: You gotta fix my painting.
Zsudayka: Be like can you paint my grandma, like, why are we doing this? Like where they give me these pictures? Like, can you paint a picture of my grandma? And I'm like, sure and then they gave me a picture and she's like in the fifth row of like a hundred people at the church and it's a photo from 1927,so it's dark and grainy. And they're like, can you just add her whole body? And I'm like, I don't know, your mee-maw how am I supposed to like manifest her onto canvas when you didn't give it to me.
JBarber: [inaudible17:38] You know what? I liked this story because, because that's kind of, it's not my story in particular, but I know that story, right. Because like I started off doing like art walks and like doing small shows at coffee shops and stuff like that. And that's the hustle, right? It's like you you're, you're there at a moment where you're trying to use your talent to sustain yourself. I mean, so what else do you do you contact and try to give people what they want, but that has a list of problems that go along with it. So, as, as long as you know, it's, it's good for people that can do it. And when you find the right people with the right attitude, that's willing to pay you, which is another thing that is always a problem, you know,
It's always cost too much, you know, it's $50, you just like damn 50 whole dollars like Jesus, but it's like what do you want me to do it for free? I mean, come on, yo. So, that, that, that hustle is, is so important because that's kind of where a lot of people start, like, especially when you're trying to make money off your artwork. So, I like, I love that story. How long did you, how long did you end up doing that? Like how many years?
Zsudayka: I did that for about two years and then I went back to teaching...
JBarber: You said forget this.
Zsudayka: I was like y'all stressing me out.
JBarber: Go back to the babies.
Zsudayka: Oh man. Cause I was like...because you know, in DC you could hustle, like you could set your art up on the street and just sell stuff like, Oh, well, you know, that's like part of the appeal of the city was I could just set up and sell stuff and kind of get to know people when I was new here. And so, people would just say weird things, you know, like I was out in Columbia Heights, one time it's vendors all up and down the street, I got my little art set up and this lady comes up and she's like, do you need help? And I was like, what do you mean? She was like, well, you got some addresses for some hospitals, if you need a place to stay. And I was like sis what about my presentation made you think I was homeless? Like, I literally have like jewelry that I made, that's nice. And like paintings like, it just was weird. And so, I was like, I'm going to go back to teaching until like something else.
JBarber: That’s a lot. hey that's what you get when you're on the street. Yo, when you out there like working in it, like I used to that same thing with the art walks, you know, always out there fighting for attention. You know what I mean?
Zsudayka: Right, you at these festivals, it's all these people and then they're comparing prices from booth to booth and trying to argue with you, it's a lot. But actually, one of those times changed my life because I remember at that time, I was selling artwork for like two or $300 for like big pieces. And just because you know, I'm new to the city, I don't know anybody. I'm just trying to make sure I could get from day to day. And I had a day, I was in a bad mood, I didn't have no money. I had run completely out; I had a child. My daughter was like four at that time and you know, I'm, I'm stressing out. And so, I was out there and I was like, I'm not selling anything for under 1500 today. And because I felt like I needed to get through more than the week. And so, all these people came up and you know, $1,500, that's a lot of money and you know how, you know, the like rigger marrow back and forth that happens. But one person said yes and scan that credit card. And for me that was like a breakthrough and a complete shift in how I approached my work in selling my work and valuing myself and valuing my work.
JBarber: Oh yeah. That's a good story right there. See, you hit a point where you do need to think more about this thing has a value rather than like what I have to do for the day. Now that's a certain amount of privilege that you have to, to be able to do that because you know, obviously if you, if you can't pay your rent, you need money. So, that's one thing that always comes and interferes with the marketplace because that's one reason I stopped doing it. If I come and I know my art has a value and like I'm selling my paintings or it was prints and selling them for a reasonable to my mind reasonable price. But the guy sitting in the front is selling his prints for $50.
You know, he done set the market cause that's the first person they see. So, by the time they get to me, they just think I'm some, some bougee asshole that’s trying to bleed people drive like, nah, like this stuff has a value. And so that something you have to have the right attitude to be able to like navigate it. Like I give a shout out to all those people that do like the traveling festivals, like, you know, go and set up. They just travel from place to place and how they booth and all the stuff set up and like, you know, the walls and, and all that good stuff. Like.
Zsudayka: Yes, I was doing that for a while too.
JBarber: That's a hustle, yo that's a hustle, and it takes a certain amount of skill to be able to survive it.
Zsudayka: I think that's, I think that's one of the things I learned is like, you have to get to a point where you're just rude where people be like, oh my God and walk away, you just don't even emotionally invest. Because they do, they will come up and be like, well so-and-so is selling theirs for this much and having to be like, so and so is watering down the market and somebody should holler at them about that. But that's not me like either you're my client or you're not, y'all, don't complain when y'all go to the Louis Vuitton store and y'all throw that 1500 down for a pair of sneakers. Like the Louis Vuitton people don't hear nothing. So, don't come to my booth with all of that. Like, Oh, can you bring it down? This is a high-end brand [inaudible23:10] telling people that. Like when they would come and be like, Oh, it's expensive. It's high-end boo if you're a Walmart type, you need to go to the Walmart booth. This is Macy's and above.
JBarber: I love it, yo. I love it. So, when do you think it started to switch for you and you started to do other things?
Zsudayka: You know what, weirdly enough, when I started to ask for more money and I know that sounds crazy, but when I started to ask for, when I stopped being like, Oh, it's $200 and started saying it's 2000 people took ... the conversation shifted and the language shifted. And you know, of course you're always going to have people that are like that's too much and walk away. But I think that it indicated a difference in the caliber of artist that I was working to be. And so, then people started to invite me into spaces with that caliber of artist. So, instead of like just doing and no shade to like the little street festival, the little local festival, but a lot of times, right. With
JBarber: A little festival,
Zsudayka: Sometimes that will get you through but a lot of times you're not going to necessarily make that $3,000 painting sale at a like corner type festival because it's not that type of market. And so, you know, when you're starting to like present your business and present your artwork that way, I think that it kind of moves you into a circle of people who are having that same type of conversation. And then they have opportunities too that hopefully they'll share with you. And hopefully that they'll open the doors. See you. And so, I ended up out here my husband like told me about Black Artists of DC. So, I joined Black Artists of DC and they had at that time, a lot of different group exhibitions. And so, I started to just exhibit every time that they had a call for art and then learning about like, Oh, there's calls for art. Like you can Google your city and call for art. And like all these opportunities start to come up. And so, I think I spent maybe a year or two just applying for everything and getting into a lot of stuff, but also just like wasting a lot of money applying
JBarber: Yes that’s [inaudible25:30]
Zsudayka: And just trying to be everywhere. And so, I think I finally got to a point where I was like, I'm going to research who's on the jury and has this gallery ever shown a black person before.
JBarber: It's funny, but that's, that's super important that you say that because like this stuff has a history to it, right? And then there are some places that are just more welcoming towards our black artists and our vibe that we trying to bring than other people
Zsudayka: Very much. And you know, one thing I noticed too with talking to galleries is that some galleries don't understand the quote unquote black art market. And so, like one thing that I think was I've been lucky in is growing up in Denver. I know how to talk to white people about the fact that white people buy black work, that like I'm not exclusively marketing my work just to black people just because my subject matter is black figures or is rooted in my culture. White people love my work as well. Hispanic people love my work as well. Asian people love my work as well. Like it's not. And so, like having that conversation with a gallery of like, yo, I could sell this in Denver. You just need to like expand how you think about the market. That's coming into your gallery. Like it's opened a lot of doors. It's also been very stressful.
JBarber: And as being black at any spaces, this on problems, I, I feel, you know, but I mean, that's, that's a real conversation that you have to have because you know, but you know, I tackle it with this a little bit where I just put it right in the name, like this is a black art podcast and it kind of, you know, it's going to separate people because if you have a narrow, like a strange view of what art can be, that doesn't include figures that are melanated, right. You you're going to have a problem, like listening to this podcast and just hearing like people that can paint, like we can paint anything. We just happened to be black. So, our vibe is going to be different, but like it's art, just like any other podcast is about art, except I'm just giving space to people that you probably never considered to be an artist. Like, just because of yo your, your bias opinion about, about people's skin color.
Zsudayka: It's so interesting that you say that too, because I just, so I just took a position as vice president of black artists of DC and like look on climate. So, the president she's new as well. We just, so we just, they just changed leadership and they put, you know, two women in charge. And so, we're going to these meetings with these different galleries to present, you know, like, Hey, we want to like connect with you guys. Talk about your proposal process for opportunities to get our members into some different type of galleries. And they always try to like start redirecting the conversation into this, like black lives matter. Can you guys do some art to like educate these white people? And we always have to be like, listen, we are an organization of world-renowned artists. There are people in our organization who have shown in museums all over the world. But because you all see black on it; you assume that this is just like a little backyard collected. Because like in that, in that world, they don't have to contemplate black art as something that is like high art or fine art. Right. And so, I feel like, you know, podcasts like this organizations like ours really have to like, make sure that we're pounding in like, no, these are incredible artists. These are amazing artists. And it's y'all's fault that y'all, didn't include the, the amazing art that we do. So,
JBarber: Yeah. So, so last year I know that you and your husband did a show and you talked about how the pandemic kind of changed your work a little bit and how it led to a shift. Tell me about that shift. Well, you know what? No, let's go back a little bit more. Tell me about your husband and how y'all met in, in how y'all ended up like doing these collaborations together.
Zsudayka: Oh man. You about to crack out laughing. So, my husband, I got this, you got to crack up laughing for a couple of reasons. So, when first moved to BC, I think I had been here four or five months and I, I took a mural for $200 to do okay. The whole $200. And probably then some went towards supply. How does this like, look, I'm just trying to get up, but it happens to be right across the street from Howard and he's a Howard alum. So, he's like my husband's all degrees. So, it's funny. We're opposites. Cause he's all degreed at. He's got a master's in painting from Howard a master's in painting from Parsons, a master's in theology from union. Like he got the greed, the greed degree. And so, he was driving past one day and saw the mural. And he said to me, and I quote, he wondered why he did not get that to a party. He saw he got a flyer that I was doing this. I was the one that's like pop-up art party at this vegan restaurant up the street from the mural. And so, he saw a flyer for that. So, he decides he's going to come to the party to kind of see like, who is this person that got this?
Zsudayka: Wow. He came and real talk like, you know, everybody's running up. And when they find out you're new to the city, everybody's got like advice for you. You know? Like I was the only person who came up and he was like, yeah, I'm an artist. I got some, you know, I can, I can introduce you to some people. So, you can do some shows, but he handed me a postcard that had actual art on it. That was like, I was like, okay, this is cool. So, I called him back up, everybody else. And it turned out that we lived up the street from each other. So, we went to we met up for lunch and he was so rude are on the computer and like slid the computer in front of me. And then he went and sat at the bar and I was like, Hey, look at this girl for me, girl.
Zsudayka: And then I felt so elementary school cause off top. I was like, he's not even trying to holler that intrigues me. He didn't seem interested. He seemed like all he wanted to talk about was art. And so, I was like, oh man, he tells me, he says Oh, I can introduce you to this place that I've done some art. And you could talk to them about maybe putting some art in one of their shows. And I'm like, cool. So, we drive out to the Banneker Douglas museum and Annapolis, we get in there, there, he does not tell is that he has a retrospective on toy museum. So, he like comes in and he's like, yeah, you know, I just met her. This is day, you know, why don't you go walk around in there? And he stands at the door, like chit and with the guys. Yeah.
JBarber: Oh, I love it. Yo that's swag, Yoda. Super swag.
Zsudayka: Oh, because I'm like, you feel like you didn't need to clarify, like what type of show this is. They got a big banner of him and his band and another banner that he's coming to preach us. Yeah.
JBarber: I'm gonna let you see it. Yeah. I'm gonna let you see it. Yo, I ain't got to say,
Zsudayka: What is this? Came back to Denver. Yeah. So, that's how we met. And we just ended up after that kind of hanging out all the time. And I had this mentor who lived around the corner named Steve, who Steve used. He like, he loved the Steve would get drunk with your drunk, drunk, drunk, drunk, drunk. And he would critique your art. And he could be like, mean, mean, mean, but he was right. And so, I would be hanging out with him and he would, he would be talking to me about like trying some different approaches and stuff and just drink and drink and drinking. And I told him, I said, I met this dude. And he said, well, have him come over. And so, my husband came over here. He had just left church. He had on his own white suit and Steve was like, hell no. And we ended up like hanging out. And so, Steve was like, okay, okay. I like this dude. Like, this is a, this is a nice dude. So, we just, we became really good friends and ended up falling.
JBarber: Right? Yeah. You saw a banner. You knew what was up when it was
Zsudayka: Like, wait a minute.
JBarber: So, and your, and your husband’s name is James. James. Yeah. Y'all look him up too. Everybody out there listening, but, but so y'all, y'all approaches were so different, right? Like w when did y'all decide to like, start mixing it together and started to do and collaborate and work together on stuff? Because most artists I can tell you, like, especially like a husband and wife, like team duo, I only know one other one, that's more Reese Evans and grace Kesa. And they, they worked together on the collaborations too, but they also maintain like a super separate practice and, and specializing in like a lot of different things, but they have this color collaborative thing. Y'all checked some of the episodes out from the new Africans check the episode out of studio noise. But yeah. So, so how did y'all end up like working together? Was it like a smooth fit? Cause he, like I said, he all degreed up and you like figuring stuff out as you go along, like what was up?
Zsudayka: Yes and no. I think we do the same. We both have our own like real strict ways that we do our work, but I think that a couple of things were happening. Like when we were sharing a studio for a while we were working in the same space at the same time. And so, you know, you start to kind of have that natural feedback of like, Hey, try this, you know, Hey, do this. And like sitting in like critiquing each other's work. And then I think that, I think the first time it was just like a curiosity thing and we both, you know, we're always looking at source photos. And there was a picture that both of us liked. And so, we were like, let's both payments like separately and see what happens. And so, we were painting, we did like a Josephine baker. We did another one with the lady smoking and we just like took a couple of the same pictures and painted them separately. And then we'll like post them together.
So, people could kind of articulate the differences in our styles and in our techniques. And so, at that time, you know, like I was definitely more of a free-flowing artist and he was more like structured and into more technique where I was painting more from an emotional space. So, when my, I brought him to I was like painting at something and they had asked me to paint Malcolm X, I think. And I didn't really have time to like, get the under paint together so I could be finished with it in the, it was like a two, three-hour event. And so, he draws really good and he draws really fast. So, I asked him like, can you draw this out for me? So, he drew it out really quick. And then I was like, well, just come on. And like, we can paint. So, I was, so he drew it up and finished drawing it on the stage. And then I came up to start painting and then he came up like right behind me and started painting over what I'm paying. I'm looking at him like, what are you doing?
That's disrespectful. I don't like that. Let me paint a little bit. And then you can paint a little bit and he's all, nah, girl, just go with the flow. Why are you doing this? Turned out really dope if somebody came up and bought it like right after. So, we were like, oh, okay. So, we started to just do it a little bit more aware. Sometimes we were painting on something at the same time, he'll draw something out and toss it to the side and say he doesn't like it. And so, I'll pick up some of his pieces sometimes. And like I collage one of his pieces with fabric that he just had tossed to the side. I painted one that he had just tossed to the side. And as, as we started to evolve in doing that, we started going back and forth on pieces.
Zsudayka: So, like right now we have a couple of pieces where I found the source photo, he drew it out and then I take it and change it from the source photo. And then we just go back and forth and we have separate studio spaces now. So, I'll have it all, do something and then I'll have one of the kids take it up to him and then he'll do something and bring it back. And so, I don't really ever know what he's going to do and he doesn't know what I'm going to do. And now, because I've gotten more into mixed media and he's still more, mostly strictly a painter I'm sending him back all kinds of wild stuff, figure out how he's going to, like, he's going to jump on it. So, that's been a with the shows that we've done together, we've done two different series together that travel that both shows had some pieces that were just his, some pieces that were just mine and at least one piece that we did together. Right. And so right now we're actually working on doing a full set of pieces together and kind of seeing what that looks like or how that takes place.
Zsudayka: It's interesting. It's growing us. Like, it's definitely a challenge to try to figure out like how to accommodate somebody else's technique and you really have to like check into what they do or what they bring to the table as you're adding whatever you're adding.
JBarber: Yeah. I think it's different. Well, you know, part of my practice in printmaking is about collaboration, but it's a little different where if I have an artist that doesn't do prints and I do prints, obviously I'm thinking more about how to translate what they do into what I do. So, it's not quite what y'all doing, but I understand what's happening. Right. I understand. Like y'all trying to get to know each other and anticipate like you might be trying to anticipate a little bit, like, what did he do he can do, he can fill in this section if I do this, like that kind of thing. Like, I love that, you know, that, that brings a particular type of energy to the pieces. Like, do you feel like those pieces are different, better than what you would do on your own? Like how do you, how do you view
Zsudayka: I don't want to use the term better, but I do think that's together. Both of our approaches are makes like the perfect artist, because his work is very black, you know, like he's, he's really into color and how color works together. But from a flat space and my work, I'm very into depth. I'm very into shading. I'm very into like multiple levels. And so, I think that like his, his color work and my depth work complement each other well, when we were focused on working together. So, the pieces look really different and I think have their own kind of vibe to them that I'm really curious to explore on a, on a larger scale.
JBarber: That's what's up. Yo. So, how many pieces do y'all think could be in the show together? I would love to do at least 10 and
Zsudayka: We're on the second one right now. And they take forever because, cause we're both working on other things too. We got a gang of kids. But you know, like just go with like, he just drew one out and I just cut up all this fabric and made this whole like elaborate outfit on the, on the thing and gave it back to him and he just looked at it like, what am I supposed to do on this now? So, I'm like, look, bro, paint on this, or I'm a finished thing. So, hopefully there can be at least 10 and we can kind of show something and mix it up.
JBarber: That's what's up. Y'all that's going to be fun. It sounds fun already, but that would be, that'd be something else. So, let's, let's just talk about just you and your technique a little bit. And we'll describe a piece chilling with bay. Like describe that and kind of describe your process that goes along with it.
Zsudayka: So, tilling with bay is based on my living room. This in my city, I call it my sitting room where I'm sitting right now. So, that's my first grownup purchase I say, is that the purple couch that's is like, I had a show a couple of years ago I sold a gang of pieces and was like, I finished I'm a drop, go get that peace. The chair, the whole room is exactly what that part of my house looks like. And that's the chair that's in that part of my house. And so, I was I think I was taking a picture of another painting and sitting kind of in the middle of my living room and just looking at like my husband was sitting on the chair and I was thinking about the fact that we never get to sit on that chair, my kids, like they make a mess, they jump on the furniture.
And so, we have, we have one of those. I never thought I'd be the mom that has one of those black house rooms that the kids can go in. Yeah, yeah. That room. And so, we just don't sit in here. Like everything looks brand new, because we don't sit on it. Like, what's the point of buying a couch. You're not going to sit on, but here we are. So, he's sitting on it and I'm thinking like we never sit on this couch. And I said to him, like, have you and I ever sat on this couch together at the same time? And he was like, no, we've had it. Yeah, no picture about like chilling with my bay on this, on my couch. And so that one was cool because I took pictures of the living room. And then I had my oldest daughter take pictures of he and I sitting on the couch together.
But because we have never sat on the couch together, we looked so awkward. Like it's just like, so a projector with that piece. Cause I drew out the room first and then I have to find a couple that was like sitting in a way that did not look like they were trying to figure out how to be in the same room together. And so, I ended up projecting that over the top of this sketch. And so that particular piece it has a couple of elements of things that I was working on, particularly at the beginning of last year, which is like wheat with fabric weaving. So, I have a series of pieces where fabric is like woven into the actual canvas. And so that has that element. I was doing some like quilt type of work, so cutting up fabric and like laying them out in quilt patterns.
And so that is included in that piece. I use a lot of decorative paper and so like the wallpaper of that piece is all decorative paper. I had a jungle in my house and so at that time I was really thinking about including more plants. And this is a month or two into the pandemic. So, I'm also like mentally trying to like find subject matter because typically before that, you know, I would be out and about, and I might see a lady at the park drinking tea and be like, oh, that's beautiful. And like take a picture of that. And that's what I'm going to paint. Well now we stuck in the house and the only time I've been out the house is to wait in line for two hours to get in the grocery store. And everybody looked crazy at that time.
Cause it was like, is this apocalypse or what? So, it's like people got, they head wrapped their whole face time not to touch anything. Bose got grocery bags on their hands. So, like that's not inspiring. I don't want to paint at all. So, I ended up starting to have to pull a lot of subject from my house and from the time with my family and the time around my children and the time around my husband. And so that piece is very much about like what it is to start to think about our space differently and think about like how we're engaging our space and interacting with our space. My favorite part of that piece is the paintings on the wall. I went back to the oil bar. So, I had, I got a grant because you know, oil bars can be a little pricey, but I got a grant and I was like, I'm just going by hella oil bars. Cause I love drawing them. And I hadn't used them in a long time. So, I got some oil bars. So, the three images that are on the wall are like a drunk night of free hand oil bar drawing. And like literally I woke up the next morning and came back and was like tried to redo a couple of them big and eight and timed out
JBarber: Daily, Joe that's, what's up. I love it. And I love I love the energy of it. You know, like it, it can be like one of those simple things because it is very quilt, like, but it is it's one of those simple ideas that are meaningful to you and because of the execution and love that you put into it, it then has meaning to other people. You know what I mean? Thank you.
Zsudayka: Yeah. You know, one of the things that last year I really started to explore was I think that we were so inundated with black trauma and seeing like black people getting murdered on TV and beat and mace and just all of that. Like every single day, like, oh the, you know, the Rona is hitting black folks. It was like a lot of like really like negative images and news cycle and whatnot. And so, I didn't want to paint any of that, but I also felt like I had a responsibility, you know, as artists we are, I guess, supposed to reflect like what's going on in the world. And so that was one of the things that was a challenge to me was like, how do I reflect what's going on in the world? But from a non-traumatic space, I don't want to, like, I don't want any paint.
I'm not doing a George Floyd painting. I'm not doing like; I don't want to do that. I want to focus on some of the other aspects of what it has like with the quarantines and things like that and finding just the beauty in those everyday moments and the opportunity to just relax and be around your people. And so, you know, a lot of my work from the last year focuses on scenes in the house, just relaxing and not trying to have, like, I don't, I didn't want to focus the subject on racism, turmoil. Like, no, I'm just living my black life and now my couch I'm hanging out with my kids. I'm in my studio.
JBarber: Yeah. That, you know, that makes me think of one of your other pieces and this piece, I think says a lot on a multiple level. So, you, you might can talk a little bit about that after the kids are sleeping. I think that, I think that it isn't, I think it's interesting cause it has a lot of layers where one is talking about motherhood, right? Like after it's, after the kids are sleeping, like it's like all the stuff like in the room that, that kind of kids come in like a hurricane into your room, like a tornado in your room and like everything's all messed up. But inside of that, in that moment, you're still like getting dressed up for your husband, ready to do you know what adults do? I love it. [inaudible] Yeah. So, so tell me a little bit about what it's like you being a mother and an artist at the same time and kind of about the moment in that painting.
Zsudayka: So, a couple of things I would say is that being an when I had, so when I have one child, I think that I still could create very freely and very, I know I talked a little bit earlier about like the emotion in the process of creating. Then I had these back-to-back babies and you don't get to stay up all night and paint anymore that seven o'clock no matter what. And so, it's like, I can't, I can't do that. And then, you know, breastfeeding that you got to stop whatever you're doing every two to three hours and feed somebody and then they cluster feed. And so, your whole day is a wash. Cause you just watch it, Netflix feeding people and, and cooking, you know, being you know, I homeschool my kids. I work from home. My husband still teaches. But I'm at home, you know, my I'm in studio and interacting with them all day. So, I'm trying to maintain the house and I got to cook for them 19 times a day. And like, all they do is eat and like, what's that.
So, it changed my process where I couldn't, you know, before I would just freehand paint, everything, like I would be like, oh, I'm going to paint these two sisters wearing their dresses on their way into church. And I would just go get my, my light brown and do all a wash. They were under paint wash that, sketched it out and, and grow from there. But you know, you can't stop. Like when you're painting like that, you have to be able to work for a certain number of hours because you have to get, you know, you have to get it outlined down, you can't stop and step away from it and then come back into it very easily. So, the kids made me, I had to start like coming up with my concepts ahead of time. And then I didn't draw before that. So, I had to start sketching out the drawings because I have to be able to, like, I only might have 30 minutes and I can paint the hat.
I only have two hours and I can do this, this little section. And so that piece in particular my friend, I have a friend in town and we were having a great time. Like I think we drank a whole bottle of Jamieson having a fantastic time. And we were like you know, when you have small kids, UK, you can get like, out of it, crazy drunk and just like be at the house. But this was one of those times, like for whatever reason, I don't her energy, the kids went to bed early, all of them. I was like, oh, and we were like sloppy, drunk. And I said to myself, like, I want to show my husband. I'm the last black man in San Francisco. It's like my favorite movie. I love just the way it's shot the way the dialogue moves, beautiful movie.
But I wanted to show him the colors drunk. Cause I was like, oh, you know, when your kind of intoxicated and you look at these different colors and these different like layers, it could be inspiring. So, I was like trying to have that type of conversation. So, I put the movie on, but he was like roaming around the house acting really crazy. And I'm sitting there waiting for him. And I got my little drink in my cup. I got my mind, I call it my bill, Cosby rope. Cause it's like a little set-in row. I'm sitting there and I don't know in my head, I didn't even see myself. I was like, I think I look really fly, right? Oh, I got my nursing bra on and I'm topping, I came upstairs and I was like, they take pictures of me. I was gone such a good a time. But that piece is a, literally a picture that he took when he came upstairs in the room. And I was like waiting for him to come. Cause I'm thinking like I'm sexy. And like, here we go. And I originally, I was just going to put me in it. But then I wanted to like really reflect on because like when you have small kids that also sleep in your bed your sexy time becomes creative.
JBarber: Perfect way to describe it.
Zsudayka: The idea that as a mom or as a woman that I could be in a sexual space, that my husband could still view me or interact with me in a sexual space. Meanwhile, our baby is in the bed right next to where I'm sitting in the chair. And so, it's like how these things go together because typically they're not viewed together. Like typically I could be, I can only be a sexy mom when it's date night or when we're in the basement and the kids are upstairs for like, what happens when I'm a sexy mom and like, yeah, the baby sleep right there. Like that's how we know I'm sexy. Cause we got all the beds. Yeah. They get here by accident. We made it happen.
And I wanted to, like, I kept a mess, you know, like I think a lot of times we especially when we're painting from real life, you know, we clean it up and I was like, no, the sheets have fallen off the bed. They don't match the pillow case. And the sheets don't match there's clothes on the floor. It's bottles and a bunch of mess all on the back of the bed, because that's really what it is. And that's like, I think in our marriage and especially a couple of years into a marriage, what becomes like sexy and what becomes those moments shifts completely from that like early honeymoon, I got some launch rates. So, like, yo, my nursing bra and just the fact that I'm presenting as available for this moment. You better come on now.
JBarber: It is what it is. I love it, I love it
Zsudayka: I smell like cookies, like, come on.
JBarber: I love it, yo Cause that's real life, you know, I've been, you know, me and my wife out 15-year anniversary is coming up soon. And those moments, those moments are, are what it is, you know? And I, but I love it because that's the its happiness is black joy, like energy, like is love like right there,
Zsudayka: You know, and that's perfect. They always say that like black love a view of it in itself is revolutionary. And so, you know, I think in my work, one of the things that's really been important is like re envisioning how we present, like especially black motherhood, because I think a lot of times, we sent her black motherhood in this like single mom narrative, the single parents narrative. And so even like, here's a moment with my husband and our children. Here's a moment, you know, that he captured or this, that interaction being there I think is really important for us to showcase, like what is the importance of black relationship? And I think, you know, I'm assuming you and I are, are in the same like age group. And so, I think that there's been a shift because when we were growing up, you know, like the Cosby's was on TV and like those type of shows. So, we were really seeing a lot of like black marriage and a lot of like black family. And I think there was a little period of time where that kind of went away. You know, like there are still black couples and black love, but like family, like we are both together in a household with all of our children and seeing all of the things that they're going through. I think that like that early, late eighties, early nineties, like that was every black show was family.
JBarber: Right. That's true. And everything is, is a single black motherhood too. Like, so it's not enough. In my opinion, of course, as a man, it's not enough about black fatherhood because it's there. Like I know I have no way more followers that are there for their kids, trying to make it work that are making it work happily and are in the same situations that I'm in, which is, which is insane situation. You and it's full of love. It's full of complexity, right? It has moments, but we're there like more than I think the narrative is told, I
Zsudayka: Think way more like, I don't know any like single parent households like that. Like most of my, most of the people I know are married or have been together. Mostly people I know are married, but have at the very least been together for 10 years plus and taking care of their kids and raising their kids together. And so, you know, I think it's, I'm like what a weird world it is when Jess, me and my black husband and our black kids walking down the street is revolutionary. You know? Like people come up to us all the time, just like, yeah, they, you know, they shake my husband's hand and like congratulate us. And I'm just like, okay, we made them, we're supposed to take care of them. Like, what are you like what'd you think would happen?
JBarber: No, but I mean, I think that's real yo and, and that's what I like about it. Like I needed it. I need to, even in my, well, my new work kind of does a little bit, but I need to do more emphasis on like what that means. Like I have a new piece that deal a lot with the relationship between fathers and kids. But it's that family unit, that dynamic that is so strong that will sustain you like over time, especially when we, when we talking about two artists where nothing is completely given to you at any given moment, right? Bye. Y'all had a good year last year, but you know, maybe it's been some years, but y'all didn't have good years. Like what do you do now? You know what I'm saying is that type of thing. But you can still like, even though all the narratives that they have about single motherhood and all this other stuff, like, you still love your husband. You still want to be there with him. He wants to be with you. Like, that's a perfect thing to show people. You know what I'm saying? I think that's kind of energy. And I think that's probably the why it was so successful. I think he sold that piece, right? No, I'm holding those
Zsudayka: Place that I want them to. There's a whole series around those that I have a place that I want them to be. And so, they are hostage. They're staple to my studio wall. A matter of fact, people come do studio visits and I'm like, you can flip through those, but none of those are available. People haven't got boat, I'd be like, it's $40,000.
JBarber: Somebody was going to give it to you one day. And
Zsudayka: You know, when, if they do, they take that, drawing it right off the wall for you. Like, here you go. So, yeah, that's, that's my new thing is it's $40,000 and I feel like I'm manifesting that clients on myself.
JBarber: There you go, yo, I love you, Joe. So, Nam then shoots. Now that things are clearing up, like, what do you have on the horizon?
Zsudayka: Oh man. So, I so those two pieces are part of a series called the mini rooms that I am shopping the proposal around on being a little bit finicky. Cause I have a specific place that I want it to be. And so, I'm trying to like maneuver it into that specific place,
JBarber: But no, the artist's call was now you shop around,
Zsudayka: Well, I've been really successful. It's like, I'll send an email or make a phone call. I think that like, when people ask me, like, what's the, what's the key to you getting where you are, is not being afraid to call somebody and be like, Hey, can you put my stuff on your walls as fire? And like having a proposal, like option to a proposal right now, like you got to stay ready, so you don't get to get ready. And so, I am shopping that around. I just took over as vice president of black artists in DC. So, we're a five oh one C3 organization that represents black artists in the DMB areas. That's DC, Maryland, and Virginia. So, we're like working on moving our organization into a space where we're not the number one organization that gets called in February, like are pulling out of those types of relationships to become self-sustainable.
We are our own organization and we're going to show our own shows and we have our own collectors. We have our own bias and we want to work with organizations that, and galleries that respect what we bring to the table. So, I'm really excited about that. And just the response that we have gotten from engaging galleries and museums and that type of conversation. We are, I have, so I have a couple shows coming up in the next couple of months, like I'm in the Phillips collection, which is a museum out here. I have a show at a coffee shop gallery and I don't usually do coffee shop galleries anymore, but SIS is she's bad. Like she's off the chain, the way that she runs her, her gallery in her shop is fire. It's called culture coffee. And the sister that runs her, her name is Veronica.
And she really, she goes all out for like the hanging system is dope and she will get you a band and have a, like a thorough opening. And like she works to actually like get them pieces off the walls and people like that. Also, a poor anytime, no matter if she was in like, like I'm in the backyard at somebody's house, like come bring some art I'm coming. Cause I, I respect that and I appreciate that. And I think that like for people who are coming up to have that opportunity to show and then have artists who are really doing big things, still be coming and bringing their people into that space is really important. So, yeah, we're working on those things. I just finished a grant. So, we're still like doing some of the finishing touches for the grant and maintaining the website and maintaining the virtual tours and whatnot from that grant.
I'm working on a retrospective right now for 81-year-old artists out here, James Brown Jr. Who is an incredible fiber artist, like incredible? And I want to I'm putting together a show showing 60 years of his work 60 years. And he's about to turn 82. Wow. And you know, what is amazing to me is like we're sitting down right now, we're archiving his work and like going through all of his work. And so, looking at his drawings from 1967, and it's the same thing as now, the police uniform looks different or like the style of some of the outfits looks a little different, but it's the same issues, the same like conversation around like his, particularly his pieces about like social justice and what was going on in America in 1967. It's insane to me that I can look at a piece from 2020 and it's the same.
Yeah. So, so that's, that's like probably a project that's really dear to my heart and really taking a lot of my time that I'm excited about for me personally, I'm just painting. I'm having a really good time right now because I've gotten lucky cause I've gotten to a point where like; people are really responding to my work. And so, I can just paint what I want to paint now. And I have collectors that like my new conversation is like, people hit me up, like, do you do commissions? And I'm like, occasionally what you want? And you know, they say, well, I want James Brown. Well, the I'm like, well cool because I can't really paint James Brown and like sell it, you know? Like I gotta, if you commission it, then I can paint it. But then I'm like, well, can I just do whatever I want?
And you know, if they say yes and I'm like, oh, you know, hit me with that 2000. And I'm a paint, whatever I want them and like, cool, like whatever you're going to do. And I'm like, so that's been really a fun, like opening in my career of just being able to like, I'm really having fun right now. And just, and painting just for fun. Like if its sales, its sales and then they do. I feel like, you know, when that relationship kind of shifted where I wasn't painting for money or I wasn't painting for a show like money and shows just came. So, I'm excited about that. I'm excited about next season DC just really opened up for proposal season. So, there's a lot of opportunities that we didn't have this year because shows got moved from last year to this year. There's a lot of opportunities that are going to open up for next year. And then I've got paintings going to the San Francisco Institute of art. I gallery in Milwaukee, the five points, art gallery, that's this, that turned a mortuary into a community art center that has a gallery and studio space. So, she has a political show coming up in June. And I have a solo there in January. All right. Look at you.
Now we have whereabouts for the summer, we're going to drop new shows and new product lines. So, right now on our website, everything is based on our show, the color section, which came out last year. And so, there's a virtual tour of the work is me and my husband's work. And then we have a product line that goes with it. So, we have leggings throw pillows, t-shirts cut sets, shoulder bags, like all kinds of stuff, but it all goes with the color section. And so, in the summer the color section that's coming down from the website and he and I are both going to have to soul over to wool tours on the site and the merchandise will change to go with the, the exhibits. So, I really got into like taking sections of our work and creating textile designs around them and creating the merchandise from that versus just putting the painting on the t-shirt.
So, that's been really exciting. It's been a response to that. Oh man, that like, that was our best seller for the longest. I have slowed down on it because I don't have time. Like we bought the we were doing drop shipping for a while. And one thing that really helped us last year was we have been doing drop shipping for a couple of years through a couple of different companies for our merchandise line. And I told my husband, I was like, well, I just want to buy the printer. We should do this at home. And we can save a lot of the money that, you know, like when I'm, when I'm ordering from this company, it costs X amount that they say like, I could just buy it in bulk and do it at home. So, we literally, I saved the money and I bought the printers January 20, 20, right.
February 1st, I got this check for this mural that we did at this museum. And I took that check and I was like, let me buy, like, t-shirts cups, all this stuff and bolts so I can practice. So, the second week in March, everything closed and you couldn't get shipments. And we were making t-shirts. He was making Cubs when the whole black art matters, blew up. Like it was order of the order of the order, but you couldn't get anything shipped, but I just had everything sitting in the studio. So, just the timing was popping. And so, after that I had, I slowed down a bit cause I was like, look, I need time to paint. Like I wasn't trying to necessarily become a like, man. Yeah. But I love having those items because not everybody can afford inexpensive piece of art. Right. And we don't offer everything on print. Like there's some pieces we don't print and there's some pieces we do print, but you know, it's a good opportunity for somebody who maybe doesn't have $2,000, but has $35 to like still support or still wrap the art in some way.
JBarber: Yeah. That's a great idea. Yeah. So, putting it all together, I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That business daddy's fault. Right.
Zsudayka: But man, I remember I was like fourth grade and he made me read rich dad, poor dad, like who's important. And like taking those and whatnot. And so, then I got older and couldn't get a job because he's like, you do too much in your job interviews. And I'm just like, that's your fault. When else am I supposed to do is to sell, setting up a business. That's been like a really opening, opened up a lot of doors for us and a lot of opportunities and options.
JBarber: And that makes a lot of sense. Yo, Hey, that might be another podcast. We out there bringing you on to talk more about, about that process. Cause you know, going forward with the podcast, I am trying to give people more like advice and especially hands on people that have done it. All right. You sound like just the person that I need to do this. I
Zsudayka: Would love to because like diversifying is everything and I have a biz, I have a group on Facebook. That's just the business group that I'm just, I post them. Cause I'm I study every day, like when I'm sitting on a computer working, I have podcasts playing about, you know, how to increase your Instagram, how to increase the way that you're engaging people. How to think about your pricing, how to have conversations with customers. Because like, you know, we have to be learning, you have to learn our market. We have to learn our business. And we have to, I think people sense when you're confident and they sense when you're desperate or afraid. And so, you know, when you say it's, it costs this much with conviction, people respond to that.
JBarber: For sure, for sure. For sure. And tell them where they can find you.
Zsudayka: So, my website is Terrell arts, dc.com. That's T E R R E L L. And there you can see virtual tours; they'll be archives up in the next month. The new merchandise line will drop and the new shows will drop in June. Right now, though they're still merchandise and the show from the color section you can also follow me at SU data. So, that's Z as in zoo, S U D a Y K a. I am the only one on there. If you type that in, I'm going to pop up smiling face and crazy glasses and that's the best place to follow me because I'm constantly putting up new work, new sketches, new videos, just like pictures of my kids, all kinds of stuff. You could really see what we got going on and what we're doing there.
JBarber: That's right. The one and only Zsudayka she gonna holla at you. Thank you for coming on the podcast yo.
Zsudayka: Thank you for having me. I must tell you before we go, that this has been a for me for a long time. Like I got my publicist three years ago and my publicist asked me for list of 10 things I wanted to do. And studio noise podcast is on that list. So, I'm checking this off. I'm like we left the blast everywhere.
JBarber: That's what's up. Yo, I love it.